Project LED

[marinelife]

This is the start of my build thread for replacing my 3 400w MHs with 3 LEDs fixtures. - $180.07 shipped

To start the heatsinks:
I ended up getting 3 10.080 x 14" Heatsinks from heatsinkusa.com
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/heatsinks/DSC_0046.jpg
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/heatsinks/DSC_0047.jpg
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/heatsinks/DSC_0048.jpg
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/heatsinks/DSC_0049.jpg
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/heatsinks/DSC_0050.jpg

I am also documenting the build here: http://www.saltgeek.com/projects/ledlighting.htm

[chromiumlux]

Nice! I am following along on this.

[chromiumlux]

Eric, would 2 sinks that size work over the 150?

[marinelife]

I think so.

[marinelife]

I just ordered 4 sets of these:
12 x XP-G R5 Cool White LEDs
12 x XR-E Royal Blue LEDs
12 lenses for the XR-E LEDs - 60 degree
1 x LPC-35-700 driver for the XR-E's
1 x LPC-60-1050 driver for the XP-G's
2 Power Cords
4 Wire Nuts

$980 total for 96 LEDs and the drivers to run them.

[marinelife]

I may need Lenses for the XP-Gs but I have to find some that will work with it. Rapidled did not think I will need any.

[marinelife]

Shipping shows I will have the LEDs in 2-3 days!

[hdelectraglide]

awesome :o

[jsharp1]

sweet, im following along as well.

[ghurlag]

it's about diggety dang time!

[Snaphook]

Tagging along! Can't wait to see how it comes out.

[jeremyreef]

so you went with a 50/50 white to blue ratio right? is that what most were doing?

[marinelife]

50/50 for now, well its all over the board on what everyone is using. I am using a brighter LED than most so it will make a difference. Also the color of the led makes a difference, mine will be 7000K-7500K so I will need more Blues

[marinelife]

I see out for delivery on the tracking :) :)

[marinelife]

LEDS are here.
I took two LEDs and a heatsink to my Brothers, he is working up the layout of the leds

It will be 4 rows of 8 LEDs with only 6 LEDs to test with

Everything:
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds/DSC_0053.jpg
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds/DSC_0054.jpg
XP-Gs White
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds/DSC_0061.jpg
XR-Es Blue
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds/DSC_0062.jpg
Two different Drivers
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds/DSC_0058.jpg
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds/DSC_0057.jpg

[ghurlag]

:d025::d025:YES!!!!!!!!! :d025::d025:

[marinelife]

I picked up some 220Gauge solid wire today at Radio Shack and some Thermal Compound
At lowe's I picked up screws, hangs, and drill bits.
I also purchased all the plastic washer they had and Home Depot had. I still need more and will have to shop around.

[ghurlag]

And you said you are screwing them on so it will be easier to change a bad LED in the future, right?

[marinelife]

correct!
Gluing them down maybe a issue if one ever blows

[marinelife]

Drilling tomorrow
Here is what it will look like, the circles are the LEDs

[chromiumlux]

Alrighty then!!!!!! This is what I been waitin to see.....

[marinelife]

Ok the drilling:
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/build/085.jpg

The holes
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/build/DSC_0063.jpg
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/build/DSC_0064.jpg

Mounting the LEDs, with Thermal Compound, Screws and nylon washers
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/build/DSC_0065.jpg
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/build/DSC_0066.jpg
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/build/DSC_0067.jpg
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/build/DSC_0068.jpg
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/build/DSC_0069.jpg
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/build/DSC_0070.jpg

Wired up: I chose to run the wires on the bottom to make life easier. It will be in a canopy so no one will see it.
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/build/DSC_0071.jpg

Just the Whites on
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/build/DSC_0072.jpg

Blues
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/build/DSC_0073.jpg

Both sets
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/build/DSC_0074.jpg
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/build/DSC_0075.jpg

I will mount it on the tank tomorrow. I also need to work on something to organize the wire to the driver, they are just all over the place now.

[chromiumlux]

All I can say is WOW!!!!!

[Sunshine]

I can't wait to see it on your tank. Take a pic with your old lights, than one with these. Bet the difference will be amazing.

[marinelife]

I will do that, there will still be two over MHs over the other part of the tank until I can build the next 2 fixtures

[jsharp1]

Wow, that's bright! looks great!

[rayviv]

THATS REALLY SHARP, ERIC ! :fing25:

[The Staffords]

That is awesome! I dont know if you mentioned this but did you go with dimmable ballasts?

[jeremyreef]

nice craftsmanship! it looks great!

[marinelife]

Here are some pictures on information with one fixture on the tank

With no optic lenses on
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds1fixture/DSC_0076.JPG
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds1fixture/DSC_0077.JPG
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds1fixture/DSC_0078.JPG
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds1fixture/DSC_0079.JPG/[img]
[IMG]http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds1fixture/DSC_0080.JPG

With a 60 degree lens on the Blues only
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds1fixture/DSC_0082.JPG
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds1fixture/DSC_0081.JPG

Readings on a LUX meter set to x100
LED with no lenses




At the water 210

half way down 50

As far as I could reach down 30



LED with 60 Degree Lens on Blues only




At the water 415

half way down 115

As far as I could reach down 85



Mhs 2 inches closer to the water.




At the water 490

half way down 115

As far as I could reach down 90


The tank is bluer with these than I with the 10000k bulbs I am using but I get more lines in the water from the lights than with the MHs
Over all everything is great

The MH readings are from the middle on the tank so rock reflection may have changed the numbers some, I will no more once I change that fixture.

[jeremyreef]

looks great! let us know what the electric bill does too :D

[marinelife]

O and no I did not get the dimmable as there are no may to control it other than manual plus at 12 LEDs to a driver you are getting the best output from the LED with the standard driver.

[marinelife]

DP&L will be sad because just today I remove 368Watt worth of light with 2 more to come in the next few days.

[rayviv]

So can you figure out the savings and how long it will take to get the cost of new lights covered?

[marinelife]

Just in bulbs the saving will be in 1 -1.5 years, with electric included maybe six months if that since I will sell the 400s I have.

[marinelife]

I added a fan to the top of the heatsink, it was getting hot so I wanted to cool it off. I will have to mount it somehow.

[rayviv]

Well If you paid, say (IE) $1200.00 for the cost of new light and it took 12 months to show that savings on your DP&L thats easy one to figure.

I'm trying to figure out how to justify going that route. I need to save on DP&L but I also need lights to protect what I have invested in this tank.

What are you selling your 400s for? I've not been happy since I switched to the t-5s. Nothing is growing like it was in the 90g under the MH.

[chromiumlux]

Moist over here dude!!!! moist I tell ya!!!!

[marinelife]

Not sure on the 400s but look at it like this, my 400s cost me about $400-$450 complete per fixture including bulb.
Not counting build time the LEDs fixture will run about $375-$400

[rayviv]

[QUOTE=marinelife;7789]Not sure on the 400s but look at it like this, my 400s cost me about $400-$450 complete per fixture including bulb.
Not counting build time the LEDs fixture will run about $375-$400[/QUOTE

Now I've changed my mind. I thought the LEDs were 800. But if they are within my meager reach I should try to go that route.

[marinelife]

The ones you buy online that are made by big companies would be $800 or more

[marinelife]

Just the LEDs on:
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds1fixture/DSC_0083.JPG
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds1fixture/DSC_0084.JPG

I will be taking the lights down to mount a fan and cover the solder joints with Silicone to help prevent rust.

[chromiumlux]

That there is one gorgeous tank. Can't wait to see it

[marinelife]

Well today I finished the other two. I installed one and am waiting on a fan to install the other one. I am going to see if I can borrow a fan to get by so I can install the last one.
I am having some back pain now from siting at the table all day.
Later I will post pictures and a list of tools and other items I used to build these units.

So far the corals look great under both LEDs

This weekend and next I will be removing my 220 line and replace it with 110 for the LEDs.

[jeremyreef]

nice!!! cant wait to see the pics!

[rayviv]

Well today I finished the other two. I installed one and am waiting on a fan to install the other one. I am going to see if I can borrow a fan to get by so I can install the last one.
I am having some back pain now from siting at the table all day.
Later I will post pictures and a list of tools and other items I used to build these units.

So far the corals look great under both LEDs

This weekend and next I will be removing my 220 line and replace it with 110 for the LEDs.

What kinda fan do you need. I have a couple that were for the canopy but are still new in box.

[chromiumlux]

I was able to personally inspect these lights today.....Freakin Awesome!!! Thanks for the invite Eric. You have a gorgeous tank. The Leds look great! Those babys pack a punch.

[marinelife]

Andy, thanks for stopping by and see the tank and LEDs and the kind words.

:d028::thanks2:

[marinelife]

With the second fixture installed
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds2fixture/DSC_0085.JPG
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds2fixture/DSC_0086.JPG
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds2fixture/DSC_0087.JPG
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds2fixture/DSC_0088.JPG

Wish just two LED fixtures on.
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds2fixture/DSC_0089.JPG
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds2fixture/DSC_0090.JPG
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds2fixture/DSC_0091.JPG

Not the best Picture of a coral
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds2fixture/DSC_0092.JPG

[marinelife]

Humidity in the house is already down 7% since the change.

[marinelife]

Got a working fan from my dad today and installed the other LED set. I can not wait for the Icecap fan as it will be better but for now this one will work.
I will post some pictures tonight after the sun goes down.

[marinelife]

Here are all three running
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds3fixture/DSC_0093.JPG
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds3fixture/DSC_0094.JPG
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds3fixture/DSC_0095.JPG
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/leds3fixture/DSC_0096.JPG

[chromiumlux]

I do beleive, i do beleive, I do I do I do.........

[marinelife]

Here are some from today with just blues, not the best pictues
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/ledsblue/DSC_0126.jpg
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/ledsblue/DSC_0127.jpg

[chromiumlux]

Wow, those are almost too blue

[marinelife]

yeah the fish had a nice glow to them, the Emperor look freaky.

[rayviv]

Got a working fan from my dad today and installed the other LED set. I can not wait for the Icecap fan as it will be better but for now this one will work.
I will post some pictures tonight after the sun goes down.

Thats Good

[marinelife]

I am thinking of taking the last 24 kit I have and making two smaller 12 LED fixtures to go in between the each of the fixtures I currently have. I have two 3/4" Thick acrylic braces that have caused shadows since the day I go this tank, I am wondering if the leds would send enough light through them to look a little nicer.

[chromiumlux]

Only one way to find out..........

[marinelife]

I am looking over heatsinks to see what I want

[chromiumlux]

come up with anything yet?

[marinelife]

nope not yet!

[marinelife]

So far the corals seem to be doing well under the LEDs.
Next issue is to figure out if I want to use the last 24 LED kit or sell it.

[The Staffords]

I vote that you make 2 smaller fixtures to help with the brace shadows. Those heatsinks you used look like aluminum so they should be easy to cut in half to make 2 smaller ones if need be.

[marinelife]

I can order ones the size I would need for cheap but the issue is I moved my one LED over the brace and it made columns of light. Having a LEDs fixture about the brace may not work. I am still thinking about this.

[ghurlag]

If you decide to sell that kit, I might be interested, if I have money at that time

[marinelife]

most likely I will use it, I am just not sure how.

Update: The living room cooled down with the AC one first time in years!!!!

[marinelife]

So inside the canopy is cool as can be, this is going to be nice!!!

[mayhem_audio]

question eric... do you need both colors for growth or only the whitish color, is the blue only for looks lets say on a frag tank would you only need a while led set up as compared to white blue cause i know on a frag tank you just tend to run 10k bulbs for growth sorry if i sound redundent think of the future and my massive frag system

[marinelife]

The white would give you growth for sure. The Blue gives them a little better color

[marinelife]

Well I can say that for the first time my living room got cool from the AC.

[mayhem_audio]

blue interms of color for growth or just when we look at them

i am thinking of building some of these for the frag system
what would i need 2 pannels per 75 gallon
if so tha would be a total of 2*4=8 kits scarry money??

[marinelife]

I would say 2 sets of 24 or 12 depending on configuration and height above the tank.
Or buy used MHs I am sell some :)

The Blue LEDs do help with growth but you will get more growth out of the whites.

[mayhem_audio]

it would go on the siaplay systwm i Bought so hignt would be a bit of an issue i am also thinking of heat aspect i know i wont have all 5 75gal tanks full when i start
but i want optimum growing condictions so i do get som speedy growth any ideal let me know

[marinelife]

I would say more whites

[marinelife]

Ok the fan is now switched out to a Icecap fan that is super quiet.

[chromiumlux]

So, hows about some updated pics

[BuckeyeDad]

A great project. Very nice!

[marinelife]

Thanks Nick!!! Stop by and see it sometime when you are up this way!

[marinelife]

I am going to add the other 24 LEDs to the fixtures I have and see how they look. This will give me 21 per heatsink!
I hope to have this done within the next few days!!

[marinelife]

I will post pictures later but I completed the LED upgrade with adding 8 more to each Heatsink. The tank is looking great now.

[marinelife]

Here are some pictures with 32 LEDs on each heatsink

http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/4112010/DSC_0402.jpg
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/4112010/DSC_0403.jpg
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/4112010/DSC_0404.jpg
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/4112010/DSC_0405.jpg
http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/4112010/DSC_0406.jpg

[chromiumlux]

Sweet sweet sweet!!!!

[johnnyb45887]

What a waste of money and time, i thought u used the metal halides to heat the water so u didnt have to use a bunch of heaters, but what do i know??

[marinelife]

I still had heaters with the MHs but the LEDs will save me electric.

[johnnyb45887]

Are you using luxeon leds??

[marinelife]

No Cree LEDs they are the standard for Aquarium builds, I also picked the new generation LEDs

This was a great project and fun. The electric savings alone made this a great project.

[ghurlag]

Definitely not a waste of time or money. The savings in electricity alone are worth the effort. Not to mention a life expectancy of 50,000 hours per LED, combined with less heat, and 0 light loss for the life of the LED...

[marinelife]

Yeah 12 hours a day = 10+ years before changing them

[chromiumlux]

Yeah and no heat transfer like halides.

[marinelife]

Update time,

Well I have a montipora that has been tan with nice Blue Polyps for many years, now it is Purple with Blue Polyps.

Here are some pictures of it and a few other corals. The pictures do not show the color to well.

[satch12]

thats sweet eric

[chromiumlux]

Eric, you have really made a wise choice with leds. I cant wait to get mine.

[marinelife]

Thanks,
I am really enjoying them!

[jeremyreef]

looking good, that monti looks awesome!

[reefman]

Hi,
Thanks for letting me check this out, very nice setup and the LEDs are really nice!

Any chance you could help me with a build?

[marinelife]

Sure I can help, just let me know!

[aquatic mouse]

Any chance you could help me with a build?

Ditto?

[marinelife]

I am going to have to charge a rental fee :)

[chromiumlux]

You are the Man!!

[marinelife]

I am thinking of changing the wire nuts out for these:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=03-09-2062virtualkey53810000virtualkey538-03-09-2062
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=03-09-1064virtualkey53810000virtualkey538-03-09-1064

This would let me disconnect them easier.

[ghurlag]

That would be much "cleaner" and definitely more convenient

[marinelife]

That is what I am thinking, I am still looking around at all the connectors to find the best one.

[marinelife]

Update on this, so far I can not complain, these are working great! The corals seem to love them.

I may add some of these to the tank to cover the braces or make a early morning light.
http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=21598
http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/store/index.cgi?action=DispPage&Page2Disp=%2Flight_bars-flexible.html - the waterproof ones
WFLB24 series 24-LED Waterproof Flexible Light Bar

[chromiumlux]

Those may just solve the brace issue. those are neat and i like the flexible idea as well.

[marinelife]

We will see, I am not sure yet what I want to do.
I did nothing to fix it with the MHs and its the same shadow with the LEDs so to me there is not difference but other will notice it.

[jjoos99]

Eric your lighting is very impressive. I cant believe they are good for 10years. that would be alot of replacement halide bulbs over the years. What size of tank are you lighting with these? Selling off old lighting should also help with the initial cost of the leds. what kindof long term results have others been having with these? From your par readings it would seem they are comparable to the halides which were 400watters? If you get a chance would you post any links on how these work, Separate items that need to be purchased. I love to tinker with my equipment and this might be a great project. Just need to save my money.
jeff

[marinelife]

Jeff,

These are on my 375
I have sold off all but the last two ballasts.

So far I have found a few people that have had them 2-3 years so far without issues
Rapidled.com for the LED kit
heatsinkusa.com for the heatsinks

The rest of the stuff can from local stores.
Solder, screws 20 gauge wire, plastic washers

cree.com for info on the leds

[jjoos99]

Eric
check out this site when you get a chance and let me know what you think about their product and price. Also what benefit would a dimable driver be and when would you use the option.
thanks
Jeff

[jjoos99]

I forgot to include the link. Here it is.
http://www.reefecosystems.com/2010/03/led-reef-lighting/

[marinelife]

Rapidled.com kits are about the same. I still have not seen a good reason to dim the LEDs, I could have done that but it was not worth the extra price. I would still need a good control to start them dim and get them up to the correct voltage.

This is a nice write up http://www.reefecosystems.com/reef-facts/diy/led-lights/ = not sure the need for the T5s

Thanks for the read that is a nice all in one place. PS the heatsinks direct are a little cheaper.

[jjoos99]

How many leds would you think that I would need to light a sps tank? standard 180 with a 24in depth.
thanks
Jeff

[marinelife]

well that is really hard to say. there are just no rules to go by. Some will tell you 180 or more. I think you could get away with say 72 if you space them well. You would just have to play and see how it look and you may have to all more later.

[jjoos99]

How many leds did you end up going with? the readings I have seen shows 48 leds being equal to a 400 watt halide. I have been thinking of replacing one of my 250 watt bulbs with one of these and compare the results and color/brightness to my other halides. It was recommended to go with 36 leds to come close, maybe alittle stronger then my current 250 watt 10k bulbs.
jeff

[marinelife]

I have 3 sets of 32LEDs and my testing from 24 each gets around the same as my old 400s

[jjoos99]

Well it has been about a month with led lighting, what can you tells us about how well your corals have done with the new lights. Any color changes for the good or bad? Going back through this thread you posted par readings comparing to your halides. How many leds were in your fixture at that time?
thanks
jeff

[marinelife]

24 leds on at that time, I need to test it now with 32 on it.

The corals look better than ever, the one montipora changed to purple from brown. One other montipora turned brown from blue but I have since moved it to see if it will color back up.

I think everything is doing well and I see no issues with going LED.

[marinelife]

Jeff, you should come to the next meeting it is at my house.
http://www.saltgeeks.com/forums/showthread.php?1044-May-Meeting

[marinelife]

I finally changed over the outlets, now the LEDs are on their own 20amp circuit, not that they need it.
No I have 4 20 Amp circuits dedicated to the tank.

[jjoos99]

Well I bit the bullet and ordered one 24led kit. I just need to get the heat sink and a couple of fans. I am going to try one set for now and compare them to my existing 10k halides. thanks for the advise on getting this kit. Eric have you thought about adding in a few red led's to help with the pink and red corals?
jeff

[marinelife]

Well yes I have and may do that in the future.
I like the blues better!!

[jjoos99]

I thought about installing several of them along with the 24 others. I think that I read somewhere about adding a few to help out with the reds and pinks.
Jeff

[marinelife]

In Japan, they use red lights for their tanks. They seem popular!

[jjoos99]

those heat sinks must be pretty heavy. The shipping alone one just one 14inch sink was over $17.
Jeff

[marinelife]

yeah they are but they work great!
I am very pleased with mine.

[jjoos99]

eric
where did you get your reds at? i didnt see them on rapidled or the site I purchased from.
Jeff

[marinelife]

I do not have any reds. I am not sure I will be getting any. I may get some spot lights LED like the par38s that have red in them

[mayhem_audio]

doesnt the red shades promote algae growth

[marinelife]

You have to watch the spectrum. My front panel still gets nice algae growth.

[marinelife]

I replaced the LED today that had a black spot on it, looks like some solder got on it. I saw another one that may have some solder on it. I will look into replacing that one sometime.

I also picked up some connector for easier removal of the lights if needed.

[jjoos99]

I got my heatsink today from heatsinkusa today. man this thing weighs a ton. Eric do you have any pics of how you mounted (hung) your lights.
thanks
jeff

[marinelife]

hmm no I guess I do not, I will post a picture today.

[marinelife]

Crappy picture but here you go,
I will see if I can get a picture from above.

[jjoos99]

so you have an eyebolt going through the fins of the heatsink?
Jeff

[marinelife]

Yeah there is a nut on the underside with the LEDs

[jjoos99]

i got my light running yesterday. it is pretty amazing how strong these little things are. You can not look at them at all without sunglasses. I was wondering if the huge heatsink was overkill but after the lights were running for a hour or so you could feel the heat coming off the heat sink. Nothing like the halides though. I did mount one fan on top of the heat sink. I havent mounted the light above the tank yet but held the light outside the tank and shown the light into the tank and it made the corals look as if the halides were not even on. I checked the wattage draw on both types of lights. the leds were 140 watts for each 12led driver for a total of 280 watts. I am currently running 250 watt halides so in my case I will be getting alot stronger light for just alittle bit more in electricity costs. I have to do alittle rework to my hood and add some supports to handle the added weight of the heat sink. I will probably need to add some screen at first to keep from bleaching the corals. I believe it is like going from 250 watt halides to 400 watts.
jeff

[marinelife]

How many LEDs did you use to get that many watts? I have 96 LEDs at only 288watts.

[jjoos99]

Now I am confused as to what is going on with my project. I just rechecked the draw and am pulling right at 135 watts with 12 leds. that would give me about 270 watts total for one light. I went back and reread the site I purchased them from and he states 133 watt reading with a 48 led light. All the lights are working just fine so I dont know how I could have done anything wrong. I checked the watt meter with one of my 250 watt halides and it read right at 250 watts. here is a link to the site I purchased the kit from. http://www.reefecosystems.com/2010/03/led-reef-lighting/ I was thinking that I had read where these were only about 3 watts per led. i would be mounting this until I get things figured out.
thanks
jeff

[marinelife]

yeah 12 LEDs should only be 36Watts, anything else plugged in there, I so not see how you could be getting 135 watts unless you fan is huge.

[jjoos99]

It must be the meter. I borrowed it from a coworker today. I also checked one of my sedra pumps (5000 model) and it read 170 watts and I just looked it up and it is suspose to be rated at just 50. What is confusing me now is how I got 250 watts on my halide bulb which is a 250 watt bulb. I will check things closer tomorrow. did you screen your tank to acclimate your corals to the light?
Jeff

[marinelife]

That is very odd!

[marinelife]

Are you going to post pictures of yours?

[jjoos99]

I checked the meter on several endtable lamps today and my tank heater and it read just fine. So mine are actually using that much wattage. I have both of them running now on the meter and it is using 245 watts for 24 leds.
I purchased my heat sink from heatsinkusa also but my led kit came from a different supplier. I went with the same size of heat sink as you Eric. Fourteen inch. I left 6 positions empty on the end incase I would want to add more led's later. I got lazy with mine and glued them to the heatsink. A friend of mine who is a wiz at soldering took on the task of wiring up all the led's. From what I learned you have to be careful not to get what is called a cold solder joint. I installed one fan and wired both the fan wires and the drivers through a 6 wire plug. I bent up 2 stainless brackets that I plan on screwing into the lid of my hood once I install some 1 by 4 wood braces to the underside of the hood.
I still dont understand the high watt issue though. That is bothering me to know what might if anything might be wrong.
Jeff

[marinelife]

Looks good, let me ask around for this and see what others say about the wattage.

[marinelife]

I see your post on RC and will be following it. Seems to be a few different answers.

[marinelife]

I can say today with the high heat outside the house feels great. No heat like with the MHs
The LEDs are working out great so far.

[TechGuy40]

Having finally seen the LED's, I am IMPRESSED! Tank looks great Eric!

[jjoos99]

well for all that are interested the 24 led light that I built tested at just .4amps draw at 120 volts comes out to 48 watts. this light should be able to easily replace the 250watt halide bulb that I am currently running. At 1/5th the electricity consumption and not having to change the bulbs out every 8 months it should easily pay for it self pretty quickly. I plan on replacing one of my 3 halides with this led light for a direct comparison to the halides. I am anxious to see the effects on my corals in the way of color and growth.
jeff

[marina]

I am so glad Eric talked me into getting LED lights. Our house has been so cool and our air conditioner has been keeping up with the temperatures that we have had lately. And I don't have to hear the chiller running and fans going when I am trying to watch a movie. Before our house would get around 80 degrees even with the air conditioner running. Now it is staying at the temperature we set it at. The LED are definately worth getting and not to mention I love the way the tank looks:D

[marinelife]

:thanks2:

Glad this one has worked out well so far!!
Thanks for coming online and posting your thoughts.

[TechGuy40]

I am so glad Eric talked me into getting LED lights. Our house has been so cool and our air conditioner has been keeping up with the temperatures that we have had lately. And I don't have to hear the chiller running and fans going when I am trying to watch a movie. Before our house would get around 80 degrees even with the air conditioner running. Now it is staying at the temperature we set it at. The LED are definately worth getting and not to mention I love the way the tank looks:D

Tell me about it! My dining room and bedroom when we moved in were the coldest rooms in the house. Last summer with halides over the 120 in the dining room it was terrible. Now with the 75 and halides in my room its getting unbearable. THinking about getting a window unit for this room.

[jjoos99]

I got my test light mounted in my canopy and working today. I have 12 white and 12 blue leds in this fixture and was surprised at the strength of the blues. I would compare the light from this to be close to a 20k color range. Up against the 10k halides they dont look near as bright but diffidently have the strong blue tint of the 20k range. They do shimmer alot more and seem to have more shadowing. I would love to test these with a par meter to see how they compare to my 250 watt halides. I have both 10k and 20k bulbs I could put them up against. At night with just the blues on it is quite amazing.
Jeff

[ghurlag]

This looks promising for a small application such as mine... Probably not something coming up in the immediate future, but definitely under consideration:

http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-65/14-Ultra-Premium-LED/Detail

http://afs.berkeley.edu/~drwyatt/Retrofit_Kit.jpg

[chromiumlux]

That is a nice kit.

[jjoos99]

I installed a 20k halide right next to the led light and there is almost exactly no difference in the two colors of both lights. i will be getting some par readings hopefully in the next week or so hopefully. I might need to add some more white leds to my fixture. i am so use to the 10ks the 20k color just doesnt seem like they are much light.
Jeff

[jeremyreef]

Sounds great Jeff! MH tend to lose PAR the bluer the bulb is. I don't think this will be the case with the LEDs.

[TechGuy40]

Sounds great Jeff! MH tend to lose PAR the bluer the bulb is. I don't think this will be the case with the LEDs.

We need an actual PAR Meter to test with.

[jjoos99]

there is a guy on western ohio reef that has one and charges for a house call with it. After it pays for itself he is going to donate it to the club. I will be having him out soon to check my readings. I have both a 20k and 10k halide bulbs to compare it to. both bulbs are 250 watt bulbs. I think that I am going to be adding another 6 white leds to brighten things up. the retailer I purchased the leds from suggested I add more whites on a dimable driver so I could actually adjust the color to my liking. I am going to wait on the extra leds till I get par readings.
Jeff

[marinelife]

What is the cost, that seems odd unless you are far away.

[TechGuy40]

What is the cost, that seems odd unless you are far away.

Like $20 I think. But its worth it for those of us who want a side by side comparison of the LED's. Unless one of our sponsors gets a par meter :p

[ghurlag]

Wes was charing ~$15 (WORC members), ~$20 for non-members a trip, esp. if far away was the deal. The meter was $200. He thought it would take about 15 people to break even overall

[jjoos99]

Is wes cyberwolf? he hasnt responded to me yet about setting up a time to come out.
jeff

[kennv431]

Is wes cyberwolf? he hasnt responded to me yet about setting up a time to come out.
jeff

Yep .. try the WORC board. you're more likely to reach him on there

[marinelife]

latest image:

http://saltgeek.com/images/projects/led/5212010/DSC_0575.jpg

Everything is still doing great!

[chromiumlux]

Lokking better and better......envy is high here at 30g central

[hdelectraglide]

looks great eric

[jjoos99]

How many of each white vs blue did you end up with on each sink? what k level would you think you are getting?
Jeff

[marinelife]

not sure on the k level maybe 15K or so
I have 50/50 on the LEDs

[jeremyreef]

I was thinking 15k or so myself.

[marinelife]

Ok my June DP&L Bill is $261 down from last years $331
Right now I have the LEDS on 10 hours a day so I may lower that to 8-9 hours. Really what I would like to do is stagger the time they come on and off.

[marinelife]

Ok I added another timer to the 4th set now it come one a little before noon and off at 9, the blues come one at 12:30 off at 10:00, the whites come on at 1 and go off at around 10

[jjoos99]

Thanks Eric for bringing out your luxmeter to check my lights. Nice to meet Andy also. I compared my 24 led fixture against my 250 watt halides. The leds were an almost exact match in intensity to one of my 20k bulbs but the 10k bulb was stronger. I will probably add another 6 leds to my fixture and I should have just what i am looking for.
Jeff

[marinelife]

No problem, thanks for the corals, it was great to see your tank again.

[chromiumlux]

Yeah Jeff, Was good to meet you. Thanks for the awsome corals. You have a gorgeous reef.

[marinelife]

Ok we are at almost 3 months and so far I still like these lights.
I am seeing growth on the new coral frags I have been getting.
The color of the corals are still bright and better than I have ever had.

[Neogenesis]

Hey Eric,

I'm glad to see you went through with your project and they are working well for you. I was just building mine when you were contemplating doing it. I'm happy to say I've had great success with mine so far, even though I have melted a zoa frag or 2. I would not trade them for anything at this point.

Now I'm trying to decide whether I want to try a clam under them.......

Scott

[marinelife]

I would try a clam if I did not have my Angels. I think the clams would live!!

[Neogenesis]

We will find out soon enough. I just made a deal to buy a 155G Bowfront, and as soon as it's stable after it's move, I will be on the hunt for a nice clam to put in. The down side, back to T-5's and VHO's until I can get my 46 bow combined into this tank and afford the rest of the LED's I need to convert the big tank to to all LED's.

Scott

[jjoos99]

I started my second led light. I went with alittle smaller sink this time and I will be putting a total of 35 leds on it. five rows of seven on a 8.46 by 14 heat sink. I will be adding more leds to my first sink if I dont end up selling it as is and get all the same size of heat sinks for all 3 lights that I will be using. The online supplier I got my leds from now is stocking the same xr-e blues but they are now putting out close to 455-460nm in color. A little more actinic in color. I have also ordered fans from www.quietpcusa.com so I will be curious to see how quite they actually are. Is everyone blowing down onto the sinks or actually pulling air and heat away from them?
jeff

[marinelife]

I think I have mine blowing down on the sink, I will have to check again, I forget what I did.
I did see that there are now 2 different Blues you can get. Either should work nicely.

[marinelife]

Can not wait to see if a clam can be kept under them.

[marinelife]

Update, the color of the corals are just getting better with each day. They are looking better than ever.
Sad news, the electric is no cheaper. I used less electric than this time last year but still paying the say size bill, stupid DPL and they raised rates.
Glad to be changed from MHs to LEDs, not sure how the bill would have been with the new higher priced electric.

The room is still cool!!

[aquatic mouse]

Yeah, DP&L makes it difficult to compare, don't they?

[marinelife]

Yes they do
Based on what I used there is a good savings so I just have to wait for winter

[marinelife]

So far the corals are still loving the LEDs, I am glad I did this project. It seems to have helped others!!
I may end up adding a few more fixtures just not sure yet.

[Neogenesis]

That's great to hear Eric. I recently had a Acan bleach for no apparent reason than it wanted to as it's been under the LED's for 3 months or so since I brought it home. It's now in the shadows trying to recover. My next challenge, get this 180G going that I purchased since my 155G Bow Front deal fell through. If only I could have seen how badly the tank was scratched in the dimly lit home I purchased it from. I thought it was ok, but with the dim lighting, and the dirt on the glass, they couldn't be seen. Oh well, $400 for a Oceanic 180G tank and stand isn't to bad., I'll just live with the scratches. LED's are going to fun over this tank!!!!

Scott

[Neogenesis]

The one thing I did forget, I'm starting to see some color morphs in my green zoas. The new growth is showing some pink near the edges where the fingers start. Completely different from the frag they grew from. I don't know if it's from the lights or the water parameters, but I like it whatever it is!!!

Scott

[jjoos99]

i now have my second light running. i am seeing some of the same shadow issues from the cross braces. not real bad but i can notice it. I dont think someone viewing the tank would notice. i can see a difference between the new cree blues over the older ones. The newer leds have a more violet color to them over the old ones. Once I get my third light up and running I plan on installing my 2 t-5s to the lighting just to fill in some of the shadowed areas and give it all that extra boost. I should have some par readings pretty soon to post. The guy that has the par meter contacted me yesterday about coming out and testing my lighting. I plan on testing a 10k halide, 20k halide and then the leds with 24 leds on and then the full 35 leds.
Jeff

[jeremyreef]

sounds great Jeff. i can't wait for the results . seems like the way to go now .

[jjoos99]

I think if I were to do the project over again I would extend the heatsinks over the crossbraces and add leds pointing through the braces. I think when I add the (2) t-5s I wont notice the lighter spots under the cross bracing.
Jeff

[marinelife]

I moved one of mine over the brace and it looked bad, not sure a T5 would fix the issue. It was just beams of light from the sides.

[Neogenesis]

We talking about plastic or glass center braces? Was just curious as I'm going to be facing that issue soon, as is my sister, both tanks will be full LED soon.

Scott

[marinelife]

I have Acrylic braces on my tank!

[jjoos99]

acrylic here also. I think with my reflectors on the halides the light was angled down into the tank so it went under the braces but with the leds each light is separate and the opticals are so much smaller pattern. I went with 80degree optics and wonder how much intensity I lost versus a 70 or 60. I believe the lower the angle of optics the higher I would have had to mount the heat sink.
Jeff

[jjoos99]

well thanks to wes for stopping out the results are in. the heat sink with 35 leds came out to be exactly equal to a 10k 250 watt halide. We got about 750 par just below the water surface, 400 at the midlevel of the tank and maintained 200 on the sand bed. My lights are about 10 in. off the water surface and I use 80 degree optics. probably could have gotten alittle better with 70deg optics. I have mine running on 700 mA ballast drivers. Pauls will be even more kick butt since he is using 1000 mA ballast drivers. We tested these readings against my 10k 250 watt bulb and a 20k 250 watt bulb. The readings were all but one and the same of the 10k bulb. When testing the 20k we got right at half of the 10k. so the end results are the led's have the same strength of usuable light that the 10k halide has with more color range of a 15 to 20k color range. After this confirmation I am extremely happy with this project. I think that once the third light is up and running I am going to mount the (2) t-5s for just alittle more punch. I was hoping to be closer to the 400 watt range but am still happy with what It came out at.
thanks for sparking my interest in this project Eric, Your build encouraged me to do this new lighting.

jeff

[marinelife]

Jeff sounds great, with a 60 or 40 degree lens you would get closer to 400w MHs
The newer LEDs would be even better so this is a great sign that these LEDs will work great for out reef tanks!

I am glad I could introduce LEDs to hobbyists in Dayton.

[TechGuy40]

I think I T5 would do it!

[jjoos99]

i think that once i get the 3rd light up I will just lay a piece of wood across the top of the heat sinks and mount the t-5 end caps to that and mount a fan to each endcap somehow for cooling.
Jeff

[marinelife]

So far the growth and color on the corals are doing great.

[marinelife]

Well we are at 5 months and so far I could not be happier!!

[aquatic mouse]

It's been five months ALREADY? :shocked: Wow. Does time fly or what?

[jjoos99]

I have been noticing within the last week or so my corals are slowly changing in color towards the good. I have one piece of ora tricolor that was white on the stems with purple tips when I first got it. It has over the last couple of time grown well but has browned out on the stems to the point there wasnt any white. Growth has been good but not the white color. After about 2-3 months of leds the stems are now starting to turn back to the original white color. I also have a ora german blue that has faded some and lost the blue polyps. The green has darkened and the polyps are starting to turn blue again. I really love these lights. I received the third order of leds yesterday so within the next week or so I should be 100% led's.
jeff

[marinelife]

great to hear.
I am thinking of adding some reds and maybe the other new blue but we will see. I am glad I changed to LEDs, it has been 100% worth it!

[jjoos99]

if you are interested in seeing the color difference you are welcome to check them out. i will be taking the 12 old blues off the first light and spread them out between the 3 lights so I dont have the color difference between the lights.
Jeff

[marinelife]

hmm, yeah I may have to check that out sometime!

[marinelife]

I think I am going to add 8 more LEDs to each fixture. I am looking at adding some Reds and the new Blues. I am still looking into it since more colors could be coming.

[Neogenesis]

I just replaced the center blue LED with a Red on one of my fixtures. I can honestly say a single Red has a bit too much power in a array of 17. My wife likes it, my oldest daughter doesn't, and I'm torn. I also notice the "spotlighting" of the RED led when trying to take pictures. In some pics, the corals look great, in other if they get caught in the red "flash", the colors just look off. Just thought I would throw out my experience with toying with them. I've got a second to install on my other fixture, but haven't yet.

Scott

[marinelife]

Scott, thanks for the experience post, I like to hear this so I can think about what I really want to do.

[Neogenesis]

Thought I would share a pic of why I don't like the SINGLE Red LED. I emphasize single as I believe that is where all of the problems come from. 1 Red LED driven at the same current as the other 16 in the array is way to strong. I think when I build my lights for my 180 I'm moving into soon, I will try it again, however use more than one driven at lower currents and the spread of light should be better.

Scott

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii308/Cichlid-Wolke/Saltwater/DSC01769.jpg

A

[marinelife]

Thanks for the picture. I am still not sure on what I want to add to mine

[jjoos99]

It has been close to 3 months now on led lighting. I, like Marinelife have nothing but good things to say about them. My color has NEVER been this good. All of my purple corals are getting deep purple now. My ora red planet has never been as red as it now is. The greens havent seemed to changed alot but still pop under a 50/50 mix of blues and whites. the only thing I can think of that is not quite as good as halides is with a good reflector i believe the halides have alittle better coverage. I already had some t-5s so I did add them to the leds and I think it helped out some. I dont know if it is enough to justify the cost but with them I feel that i am getting close to a 400 watt halide bulb in intensity with a third to a half less electricity and never having to replace the bulbs. Eric has truly been cutting edge with getting leds going in this area.
jeff

[deuce2004]

Ill have to get back over and see your tank now that you have all your lights done

[jjoos99]

it has honestly never looked better. I recently took out one of my HUGE corner overflows which has made a large difference in the way the tank looks. I would welcome the visit.
jeff

[deuce2004]

ive been looking into doin my 75 with all LED's, which im figuring 2 sets of what 34 or 36 (cant remember which) from reefledlights.com, prices seem to have came down quite a bit, but ive been wanting to talk to you and get your opinion on my setup, ill get with you and come see your lights now that your done, and maybe i can pick your brain lol.

[marinelife]

Thanks for the kind words and the update.
I have been thinking of adding to my lights as well, maybe add 4-8 more in a different color than I have now.

Don,
You should look at RapidLED.com, I purchased all mine from them, they are great!! Plus they are a sponsor :)

[Neogenesis]

I just ordered from RapidLED about a hour ago. I now have enough supplies to get rid of my 2 150w MH pendants over my frag tank for a 100% LED setup. WOOHOO!!!!!!

[marinelife]

Nice did you tell them SaltGeeks sent you :)

[Neogenesis]

No I didn't......never thought about it. But in the end I had made my first purchase from them before I ever found this site.

Scott

[marinelife]

cool deal!

[Neogenesis]

Well, it's done. I've got it over the frag tank and it's looking good. Please don't laugh, it's a little rough as it sits in the back room where the sump lives.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii308/Cichlid-Wolke/Saltwater/DSC_3668.jpg


and a few pics of what I've got growing in the frag tank.
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii308/Cichlid-Wolke/Saltwater/DSC_3662.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii308/Cichlid-Wolke/Saltwater/DSC_3665.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii308/Cichlid-Wolke/Saltwater/DSC_3666.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii308/Cichlid-Wolke/Saltwater/DSC_3664.jpg

Scott

[marinelife]

Looks good I like it, do you have a cooling fan on it?

[Neogenesis]

Ya, with 12 LED's on each of those smaller heatsinks, fans are a must. I've just got some small 80mm computer case fans on them, but will be going to 120mm low speed, lower cfm fans to keep the noise down as a lot of air isn't needed to keep them in check.

Scott

[marinelife]

Nice, so far my fans are keeping everything cool!

[Neogenesis]

That's great!!!! I won't use any other type of light anymore. I guess I could elaborate on my build a bit more I used different heatsinks. I ended up ordering the heatsinks from rapidled.com for this build as they were a lot cheaper than the heatsinkusa.com units. There are some major differences as well, so I would expect them to be cheaper, but they are still more than capable of the task. The base of the heatsink is thinner and the fins are only around 1" tall. With less material to disappate the heat, it's essential that you use fans with these. Personally I feel the heatsinkusa.com units are way overkill for building these lights, I just wish rapidled.com would offer some larger sizer for bigger arrays. Overall I've very happy with the way the light came together. When I take it down in a few days to finalize the wiring, I'll take some more pics. I like the way I was able to frame them all together, I also added some flat stock to the back which hold the power supplies, it just turned out to be a nice little package to hang with only the power cords to coming off of it.

Scott

[marinelife]

I have made a small change to my lights, I now have angled the end fixtures. They now angle in toward the middle of the tank. I moved one side up on chain link. This helped with the shadow I had and so far the corals do not seem to care.

[marinelife]

I am about 2 months away from the 1 years mark, Over the last 10 months I have seen tons of growth, lots of new colors, lower heat in the room, and lower electric bill. The LEDs have been a great investment for my tank.

I do still want to add 24 more LEDs to these fixtures sometime this year.

[The Staffords]

Good to here the positive review about the last 10 months. I have a couple questions if you dont mind.

In your opinion, how far up do you believe you could hang your fixtures without negitively affecting your corals?
Costs aside, do you believe that you could have achieved similar results with less LEDs that were spread more evenly across the tank?(Less like pendants/spotlights)

[marinelife]

I could go up 6 or more inches I am sure without issue. I have seen some have their fixtures 5 feet off their tanks with out issue. Going that high I would possibly need more LEDs

I do not think I could go with much less LEDs, I am currently about half of what everyone recommended.

[marinelife]

well after the a year I have had the first issue. I had to order a new driver for one set of blue LEDs. At my meeting we noticed one set would flash, well today the LEDs stopped working. I did some testing and so far it seems the driver is bad. It has an 18 month warranty so I can get it fixed and use it as a backup.
Will update when the new driver is here.

[marinelife]

New driver ordered Friday, arrived priority mail today. Installed and the blues are now working again. Hope that was the issue

[ghurlag]

Awesome - at this point, any information on LED implementation is good to know. We are at a critical juncture with folks switching over. As with anything in this hobby, information is key. Hopefully in your case, Eric, this was a fluke.

[marinelife]

I think its all the thunderstorms. I always have some damage after a big storm comes around.

[marinelife]

I just ordered some 65 degree lens/optics for the whites. Will see how much changes it makes to the light and corals.

[reefgrower]

Interested to see how the optics change things.

[chromiumlux]

I think you will be happy with the addition of lenses that will both focus and spread the light.

[marinelife]

I just ordered 24 more royal blue leds with 55 degree optics to spread across my the heat sinks. This will bring me to 120 total plus the two boostLED par red/white bulbs.
They should be here next week so hopefully I will start mounting them in within a few days.

[chromiumlux]

Nice! You will love the look these produce.

[marinelife]

yeah I feel I need a little more blue. then I want some stunner strips to add a few other colors.

[marinelife]

In the mail came my 24 Royal Blue LEDs :) I hope to pull the lights down one at a time and start mounting the new lights. I love the speed of service. Ordered on Friday and they are here Monday from California.
They also sent a free tester. its just a double A batter holder with to leads but still nice to have.
I will post pictures when I get started.

[marinelife]

I have one fixture down and have the holes drilled and the LEDs mounted. Took a break to eat. After I will wire up the LEDs, add the connected to the drivers (something I have had but never added), then glue the LED optics on and I will be all set to put it back and start the next one :)

I hope to be two of the fixtures done today if not all three.

[Neogenesis]

That's awesome Eric. I'm looking to add one more fixture of 24 LED's to my tank....as I'm having a bit of trouble getting enough light through the 1/2" glass center brace on my Oceanic tank. I did however add in 4 warm white LED's and saw a immediate difference. A few of the colors on my corals just look a little "richer" than whey were before. It will be interesting to see if it helps with growth on any of them.

Scott

[marinelife]

so far two done one to go. Should be done this evening.
For my brace I am thinking of adding a few Stunner Strips on the bottom side since they are water proof.

I have 16 cool whites and 24 Royal blues on each fixture now.

[chromiumlux]

:Camera:I am waiting for before and after pics!

[marinelife]

The 8 new and 4 old ones
http://www.saltgeek.com/375/images/led/DSC_0212.jpg

New connectors
http://www.saltgeek.com/375/images/led/DSC_0213.jpg

All the LEDs on
http://www.saltgeek.com/375/images/led/DSC_0214.jpg
http://www.saltgeek.com/375/images/led/DSC_0215.jpg

[chromiumlux]

Looks great! How do you like them?

[marinelife]

I like it other than a white one on this unit at the back second from the left. You can see the glow under the lens, I am going to order a new led and lens for it. It is not an issue right now as there are no corals under it.

I will do some par readings tomorrow and see what the difference really is.

[chromiumlux]

Cool look forward to seeing the results. I like it.

[marinelife]

Did some testing on the PAR meter.
I am not at 150-160 on the sand and 400-450 on the top rocks. Outer edges of the tank are hitting around 125-225 depending on the location.
Sand bed is up from 100 so it looks like the optics and extra LEDs have gotten my readings up to where I would like them.

[marinelife]

Here is what I have now

48 - CREE XP-G R5 Cool White 3W with 65 degree optics
48 - CREE XR-E Royal Blue 3W with 60 degree optics
24 - CREE XP-E Royal Blue 3W with 55 degree optics

I have 3 fixtures split the following way:
16 - CREE XP-G R5 Cool White 3W with 65 degree optics
16 - CREE XR-E Royal Blue 3W with 60 degree optics
8 - CREE XP-E Royal Blue 3W with 55 degree optics

Par readings at sand before the XP-G had optics and the 8 XP-Es were added
100 - sand
300 - top rock

Completed
150-160 Sand
400-450 Top Rock

I also have 2 boostLEDs PARs with 3 Red and 2 white LEDs

[marinelife]

The top post is the left side.

This is the right side:
first rock on the right(14" under water): 250par before upgrades 500 after
Birdsnest coral, same leave as the first rock but off to the side: 125par before upgrades 350 after
Sandbed(26" under water): 90par before upgrades 140 after